Need Help

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-01 16:39:17

Looking into it but it may be tonight before i have an answer and procedure. I do have a good idea of what it is but it is to difficult and long to post at this point. I think it is the fuel pump ground or the EFI relay at the fuse box :idea: .

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-01 19:35:05

Ok,, thank you sir. If you start up the bike sitting idle it will go up to 29 pound, flip on the headlights and it will drop down to 25 pound. It never went over 29 pound no matter what I done. I did take the fuel pump, regulator, apart and found no dirt in it. The fuel filter didn't have a speck of dirt in it. The voltage at the battery, switch, and everywhere I check is always above 12v not running and above 14v while running. The only thing I couldn't figure out while testing is that the service manual said unplug fuel pump connector under the seat and check voltage with key on to wire A and C and make sure you have above 7 volts. I did that and only have 4.67 or so. But if I hold the voltmeter on A and C and have my wife turn on the key it will say 12 or 13 volts for just a second, then you will hear the EFI relay click and the voltage drops less than 5. If she puts her foot on the brake and rolls the engine over it will climb quickly to over 13 again. With it all plugged back in and idling, the voltage at the plug is over 13v. I don't know how or if there is a way to test the EFI relay. The only ground I see is under the driver seat and they are clean and tight from what I can see. I looked at the service manual and it doesnt show how to test the relay. Thanks again. I'd pay for a round trip plane ticket to Ohio for you to fix this, then we'd go riding all day. lol.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-01 22:28:32

Ok this is what I think and what needs to be done. The fuel pump and the fuel gage share the same ground so unplug the connector at the pump and use the Ohms scale on the meter and then meter from the Neg of the battery to the brown of the RZR side of the plug. It should be near zero Ohms. If this tests Passes then the problem is at the fuse box relay or in the fuse box. We need to test the red/black wire at the fuel pump connector to where pin 87 of the pump relay plugs into at the fuse box. There should be all most no resistance on the fuel pump positive. Pull the fuel pump relay and run a 14 ga wire from the battery to where input 87 is with a flat crimp connect and that will bypass the relay for testing purposes. If all is good it should read a constant 12.5 or higher and the pump will come on without the key turned on. The fuel pump pressure should read around 39 psi and should not drop bellow 33 to 34 psi. You could rig this for a test drive and see if the problem corrects itself and if it does you need to replace the EFI relay at this point. Be careful that you do not short anything out because there is no fuse at this point and you have bypassed around most of the wiring except a EFI splice point somewhere elese. The replacement relay is Polaris part number 4011284 and cost $10.00. FYI, to avoid most of the above proceedures I would buy and change the relay out first after testing the ground because it is cheap and I think this is where the problem is and it is and it is easy to do. Also change the 15 amp EFI fuse for a new one just incase. unless it is a bad fuse box connection. Did you replace the fuel filter before all this, you never said…….

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 09:41:03

Morning,,,,,,, I done what you said, and here's what I got. On the Ohms part of this test. I'm not real familiar with the Ohms setting on my voltmeter. I understand AC and DC but Ohms I don't fully understand. So I will explain to you what I done. My Multimeter has 5 different Ohms settings. 2000K, 200K, 20K, 2000, and 200. I had 0.4 Ohms on 200 and 000 on all the other ones from the Neg of the battery to the brown wire on the plug. I had 1.0 on 20K and 000 on all the other ones from the red wire on the plug to the number 87 terminal in the fuse block. I took a 14 gauge wire from the positive on the battery to the number 87 plug in the fuse block, and checked voltage at the red wire on the plug and had 12.6volts. I then plugged it in and the pump came on and run constantly for about a minute and the pressure never went over 29 pound. I even took the gauge and hooked it up directly to the steel nozzle at the fuel tank where the high pressure line plugs into the tank itself and still got 29 pound. As for the fuel filter I didn't get one. Just for test purposes I took it off and set it down into the full tank of fuel, turned on the pump and got 30 pound of pressure. I also took the gauge off the tester and put it in a gallon jug and run the jumper wire, the fuel came out the hose only about 2 or 3 inches in a steady stream. i have done this before trying to diagnose cars and seen fuel shoot 5 feet. So where do we go from here. I am your mercy. Thank you so much for your help.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 10:41:20

O.k. On the meter all we are concerned about is the 200 ohm scale and i need you to retest term 87 back to the fuel pump connector. did you try driving the UTV with the temporary jumper from the battery to the fuel pump :?: . I am going to look at another book but 29 lbs is still low per the rzr manual but it now holding a constant 12.5 volts is going somewhere good.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 11:27:15

O.k The fuel pressure needs to be 39 psi +/- 3 psi and if your gage is accurate 29 psi is not enough. There is a fuel regulator on the pump inside the tank and maybe there is an adjustment but i am not sure because it depends on the pump. I do not know of what aftermarket replacement pump is used on the RZR but on the ranger XP there is at least 3 different pumps and i only know what is used from 2005 to 2007 which were also manufactured for the auto industry. If you find that the regulator is not adjustable i would take the pump to a really good auto parts store and see if they can cross reference the pump or regulator to one that is used in a car. Polaris charges around 3 times as much for theirs and i would only do that as a last result. I would like you to still give me that last reading before it is time to put it all back together and as of now i would still replace the relay and hope you can fix the regulator otherwise the cost of the fuel pump is not going to be cheap. I will do some research and see if i can come up with a pump part number on my end. I wish the news was better......

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 13:08:02

I checked the ohms again for you. The ohms from the battery negative to the brown wire is 0.2 with the key on and off. The Ohms from the red wire to the fuse block is 0.2. I ran it with the jumper wire in and it done the same thing. 29 pound and the harder and longer you stayed in the throttle it dropped down to 20 pound and started missing . Stop and let it idle and it would work it's way back up to 29 pound. I called our local dealer and they said it's a non servicable part. I would have to buy the whole gas tank and all. It was 460.00. I was shocked. I looked all over the internet for a replacement pump and can't find one. I know the gauge works too, I hooked it to my car and it immediately went to 60 pound.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 13:19:42

As fare as Polaris is concerned it is not serviceable but it is, I need you to pull the pump and take it to a good auto parts store like Napa Or car quest. here is a possible pump replacement but you will need to use the old cage. It is airtex E8229 and match the old with the new one to be sure. as fare as the wiring it is all good and it is a bad pump.

Same Pump other manufactures

CROSS REFERENCE:
BOSCH:0 580 453 407
AIRTEX:E8229
WALBRO:WEP310, WEP318, WEP321
ACDELCO:EP126, EP382, EP387
NISSAN:17040-8B0000,17042-OW000
HYUNDAI:31110-28100,31110-33610,31111-37300,31111-37200
ISUZU:5-86202-235-0,8-94384-528-0,8-94384-528-1
HONDA:17040-S02-L00,17040-S04-G30,17040-S04-G04,1704-S040-L00,
FEDERAL MOGUL:P72192, P72236, P72237, P72239, P72240, P72241, P742242,
KEM:EFP8229
MAZDA:B3C7-13-350,3E7-13-350A, B3E7-13-35ZB, B61P-13-350B, BPE8-13-350, BPE8-13-35Z

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 13:41:50

Thank you. I called our local store and they have one in stock and it is 135.00. Do you have any idea the pound that this pump will put out. I was thinking that if it puts out over 39 pound wont the regulator open up and dump the fuel back into the tank? Does the pump in the bike now more than likely put out more than 39 pound and the regulator takes care of the rest. But mine is barely putting out 29. I was figuring the same thing after we done the ohms test and jumped out the relay and it stayed at 29 that it was the pump. I will try to get down there in a day or so and match it up and bring it home and try it. I'll let you know. thank you for your help, I am greatly indebted to you.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 13:53:23

Remember it is +/- 3 psi at 39 psi so even at 43 or even 44 you are good to go. The pumps themself deliver much higher PSI and the regulator changes that. There may be a slight difference between the two pumps but it should work. let me know what they are so i can make a note in my files and add it to the site.

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 13:58:09

Ok,, thanks ,, i will definately let you know. I didn't see a way the regulator was adjustable. I am going out and take it back out and look at it again. and take the pump with me to the auto parts store. Let ya know what I found out.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 14:40:42

The worst case scenario is that the new pump may deliver to much PSI and we would have to install an external regulator and bypass the internal regulator. they are not that much money.

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 16:05:11

That could be a possibility. I just read the service manual again, and the way I understand it. Once the pressure exceeds 39 pound, (+or- 3lb.) The regulator spring will allow the excess gas to expel back into the tank. I did another test, it was kind of crude. I took the sending unit out of the tank and took it clear apart and took out the pump. I took the pump and hooked a rubber length of hose to it and plugged the leads back in and hooked my gauge up to the length of hose. Lowered the pump in the tank and turned on the key. 29 pound was all i could get. Now,,, that bypasses both fuel filters, regulator, injectors, and all. So,, definately sounds like a weak fuel pump. Like I said,, My Polaris dealer said they have changed a few, but not very many. They said it is a non servicable device, 460 bucks and he says it comes with a new tank. I don't need a new tank. lol (which I can't beleive, because everything on it can come apart). I have the pump right here in front of me. It's a Bosch pump with numbers F 01R 00R 007,,,,,,,,,, 12V 566,,,,,,, 789-22,,,, Made in China. So I can't believe I wouldn't be able to find one,, But I am definately going to take your advice and go to my local Auto parts and look at that pump tomorrow morning. I'd say with all the testing that you've had me try this week, (which I greatly appreciate,, I've learned alot this week, Thank you) that the fuel pump is the culprit. I will let you know what I find out, and if you can think of anything or know anyone on the forum who may have a used one for sale please pass it along. There isn't too many of these around here for parts.

grtrnd1 · 2009-07-02 16:42:30

Something I had to share and thought was ironic. That part number you gave me for the Airtex E8229 pump. I noticed that it also fits 93 Jeep Wrangler with the 2.5 cylinder. I happen to have one sitting in my driveway that I drive everyday. I went out and hooked up my gauge to the fuel rail and started it up. Walked under the hood and low and behold........ 39 pound. lol.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-07-02 17:42:28

Polaris or whoever is buying the factory pumps from Bosch Taiwan and it is not easily available in the USA because it is not slated for automotive use. I think that this Airtex pump will work fine and it sure will beat the hell out of $450 a pop even if it needs an aftermarket fuel regulator it will save you and allot of others a lot of headaches down the road. What Polaris has done is take a $60 fuel pump and raised it 800% and chose one that would be hard to get for there benefit. It is there way to stick it to you after your big initial purchase from them and to make you come to them for the parts . A good money maker Idea would to reverse engineer this stuff and charge half the price and start a new business not just on Polaris replacement parts but other manufactures as well.

#31 2009-07-01 16:39:17

Re: Need Help

#32 2009-07-01 19:35:05

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#33 2009-07-01 22:28:32

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#34 2009-07-02 09:41:03

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#35 2009-07-02 10:41:20

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#36 2009-07-02 11:27:15

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#37 2009-07-02 13:08:02

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#38 2009-07-02 13:19:42

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#39 2009-07-02 13:41:50

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#40 2009-07-02 13:53:23

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#41 2009-07-02 13:58:09

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#42 2009-07-02 14:40:42

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#43 2009-07-02 16:05:11

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#44 2009-07-02 16:42:30

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#45 2009-07-02 17:42:28

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