NE one snap a belt yet?

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-10-05 15:21:41

Anytime you modify the design of something outside of a certified modification that is approved by Polaris can cause issues with the warranty. It all depends on how good your dealer is and what he is willing to overlook :!: .

hoser · 2009-10-10 06:16:30

No because it is one of the modifications that they do to the RZR-s to get more top end out of it and they have removed it on the 2010 standard RZR.
I did some quick searching for removing the clutch spacer. Found that a bunch of people were snapping belts shortly after they removed the spacer. Others were arguing that the belts may have already been stresses/broken in incorrectly. However a different guy said that it was the first mod he did when he got his RZR with 0hrs and he snapped his belt shortly thereafter. Of course he may have beat the bag out of it but it leads me to be a bit skeptical of the mod. Since they removed the spacers on the new RZRs, have they changed the pulley design at all? If not I will be removing some extra parts from mine this winter Just want to know, if it saves me $80-100 it would be worth it.

Local dealer said the same thing "some" experience belt problems after removing the spacer on the RZR my guess is its a mfg tollerance thing, something is machined slightly different on "some" and allows the belt to ride too high on the clutch then poofkaboom, if your one of the "some" that have had belt problems after removing the spacer I would buy a new spacer and remove 1/8" off the width and try it to see what your top speed is and if you have belt problems then you might remove another 1/8" and try again.

Just a thought.

hoser · 2009-10-10 06:18:38

Well this can get to be a very involved answer because from model to model year, and from the standard RZR to the RZR-s it is all about what they did to tune the clutch. Standard rzrs from 9/30/08 and before had the good secondary clutch system and 10/01/08 and after used the basic same cheap crappy one that is used on the Ranger Xp. The Rzr-s was never effected with this change. The difference between the standard RZR and the RZR-s primary clutch is tuning and EBS and by removing the limiter on the RZR-s models. On the 2010 models they removed the limiter and the sheaves are still about the same. there are a few part number changes but none of which would blow a belt. Like i stated earlier in the thread, belt failure is normally related to alignment problems, Broken engine or transmission mounts or a defective belt. I personally would not just take the limiter off unless i was going to do a full clutch kit and check the alignment anyways but that is me. As for every one person that has had the belt issue there are 20 that don't. There are much better belts out there like the ones from dayco that are much stronger then the stock belts. Like with all modifications there will always be a risk that a modification that is done to one machine may not work as well on a same model but a different machine. Until you try it you will never know what the outcome will be. As for doing any modifications it should only be done if you are mechanically inclined and if that is not the case i would deal with a guy like dale at dirty dawg performance and have him set it up for you.....

Have a part number for the DAYCO and a link to dirty dawg?

Thanks

hoser · 2009-10-10 06:19:40

Thx Dale, like I said I may think about it this winter (My garage isn't heated so working with metal parts during winter just stinks) Sorry about all the questions but, like I said this whole belt drive thing is relatively new to me so my confidence level working on them is rather low. Might just look into a clutch kit. Would a mod like this void a warranty BTW?? I purchased a 5 year warranty on this thing and not looking to blow it. I realize that they have to prove that a failure was directly related to the aftermarket part but if I were to royally screw something up, I can just imagine the BS that would come along with trying to have it fixed under warranty. Thanks!

Switch back to the stock parts before taking it in for a warranty claim?

hoser · 2009-10-10 06:23:03

The kit from dirty dawg is supposed to make a major night and day difference and eliminate most of or all the problems you are talking about. They are the most expensive but said to be worth every penny. I did a few on a some friends Razors and Rangers about a year or so ago and they were very impressed with them. Mine has the one from EpI and it made mine allot better and I now put more power to the ground and it was really noticeable in the sand washes and i don't smell the belt as nearly much anymore when pulling the trailer like the one you see on my post and i pull it loaded up hills and down hills loaded like you see it. I am going to talk to Dale over there at Dirty Dawg if the money starts flowing again and still do the upgrade because his kit is supposed to be twice as good as the one I am Running now from EPI. I always said that this should always be the first modification on a Polaris because the factory stock setup has its major issues. You should call him up and do one before your moab trip but make sure you give him all your information so he can tune it in for you and your uses :idea: .

Can you describe in detail whats wrong with the stock clutching?

I know they have to tune the clutches to work for everybody and most need to tune the clutches for their mods and liking.

Any suggestions on replacement belts, brand and part numbers?

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-10-10 11:47:14

Hoser, most of your questions from reading your post have already been answered on this thread. I will add that the main issue with the cheap XP and new RZR secondary clutch is you can not change the helix for a better and the secondary from dirty dawg is rubber dampened. The stock setups are tuned for sea level and are tuned to be soft and and the belt slips way more. here is the link to dirtydawg performance and he stocks the belts as well. You can also google dayco and look up the part numbers there for the belt.

www.DirtyDawgPerformance.net
http://www.daycoproducts.com/daycoweb.n … SNOWMOBILE

Like i said earlier in the thread it is way to involved to get into the exact detail on the differences on what has changed and what needs to be changed on theses clutches and would be best to call him on what he would exactly do for your year and model.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-10-10 12:38:41

No because it is one of the modifications that they do to the RZR-s to get more top end out of it and they have removed it on the 2010 standard RZR.
I did some quick searching for removing the clutch spacer. Found that a bunch of people were snapping belts shortly after they removed the spacer. Others were arguing that the belts may have already been stresses/broken in incorrectly. However a different guy said that it was the first mod he did when he got his RZR with 0hrs and he snapped his belt shortly thereafter. Of course he may have beat the bag out of it but it leads me to be a bit skeptical of the mod. Since they removed the spacers on the new RZRs, have they changed the pulley design at all? If not I will be removing some extra parts from mine this winter Just want to know, if it saves me $80-100 it would be worth it.
Local dealer said the same thing "some" experience belt problems after removing the spacer on the RZR my guess is its a mfg tollerance thing, something is machined slightly different on "some" and allows the belt to ride too high on the clutch then poofkaboom, if your one of the "some" that have had belt problems after removing the spacer I would buy a new spacer and remove 1/8" off the width and try it to see what your top speed is and if you have belt problems then you might remove another 1/8" and try again.
Just a thought.

On todays clutches they are manufactured on a Haas or a Fadal CNC machine that produces the first one exactly the same as the one thousandth one. They are all checked after they have been machine and if they don't pass they are rejected. When i talk about alignment it is the alignment between the two clutches from the engine to the transmission and the side to side alignment. There is a tool that you buy that looks like a Jig that you use to set it up thru adjustments and shims. If the clutches are to fare apart it will put to much pressure on the belt and cause it to snap. the factory has been known not to set this up correctly and always should be checked.

hoser · 2009-10-10 13:05:08

Hoser, most of your questions from reading your post have already been answered on this thread. I will add that the main issue with the cheap XP and new RZR secondary clutch is you can not change the helix for a better and the secondary from dirty dawg is rubber dampened. The stock setups are tuned for sea level and are tuned to be soft and and the belt slips way more. here is the link to dirtydawg performance and he stocks the belts as well. You can also google dayco and look up the part numbers there for the belt.
www.DirtyDawgPerformance.net
http://www.daycoproducts.com/daycoweb.n … SNOWMOBILE
Like i said earlier in the thread it is way to involved to get into the exact detail on the differences on what has changed and what needs to be changed on theses clutches and would be best to call him on what he would exactly do for your year and model.

Ok I read this whole thread again and dont see what the problem is other than driving slow like your rock crawling (one foot on brake one on gas) the owners manual covers that issue.

"They are harder on them when running the stock clutching but if you get a good kit it fixes allot of the stock setups shortcomings. "

The shortcomings are the clutch engages at too low RPM or up shifts too slow, up shifts too fast dont back shift fast enough, I dont have much seat time in a RZR and its mostly at low speeds and flat ground what am I looking for?

So far I thought the clutching was pretty good from the factory, time will tell once I am able to put the machine through more.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-10-10 15:16:53

I do not know how to answer your question :?: . Everything you said above is the problems with the stock system and just a little more and the kit fixes most of them :idea: . Under load you lose more power with the stock set up then with a well tuned kit. Going through sand washes the machine has more slippage through the belt system with the stock system then with a modified system. A good clutch kit will give you a much better seat of the pants feel then the stock system. You will get up in the power band faster and get there faster and in some cases even more top end. Pulling a heavy trailer down the side of a mountain is a big difference because of the braking improvements. Ask anybody that started with the stock system and then upgraded and they will say it is a night and day difference and the performance. Your belts will last longer and not slip as much on the sheaves. The stock system is not that efficient and never has been. I know this first hand because i have done quite a few of them and have seen the before and after effects. If you can give me a clearer question i can try to answer your question a little better :idea: . But on the other hand since you do not haul any loads and run through sand washes or plow snow or rock crawl you may be just fine with what you have but as you get more seat time you will see what all the shortcomings are with the drives like i have seen :idea: .

hoser · 2009-10-10 15:54:40

I do not know how to answer your question :?: . Everything you said above is the problems with the stock system and just a little more and the kit fixes most of them :idea: . Under load you lose more power with the stock set up then with a well tuned kit. Going through sand washes the machine has more slippage through the belt system with the stock system then with a modified system. A good clutch kit will give you a much better seat of the pants feel then the stock system. You will get up in the power band faster and get there faster and in some cases even more top end. Pulling a heavy trailer down the side of a mountain is a big difference because of the braking improvements. Ask anybody that started with the stock system and then upgraded and they will say it is a night and day difference and the performance. Your belts will last longer and not slip as much on the sheaves. The stock system is not that efficient and never has been. I know this first hand because i have done quite a few of them and have seen the before and after effects. If you can give me a clearer question i can try to answer your question a little better :idea: . But on the other hand since you do not haul any loads and run through sand washes or plow snow or rock crawl you may be just fine with what you have but as you get more seat time you will see what all the shortcomings are with the drives like i have seen :idea: .

So are they (the kits) raising the engagement RPM and or the shift out RPM if so by how much, if you have done a few kits you must have noticed the before and after RPM changes?

From your description in this reply its not sensing the load changes properly.

Are their changes made that affect the belt squeeze?

What I dont want in a clutch kit is to shift my RPMS up higher from bottom to top if thats all thats being done I like to keep my RPMs as low as achievable, raise the RPMs needlessly say 500 RPMs thats 30k more revolutions your crank makes every hour of run time.

As a test I added about 250 lbs then took another ride and was impressed how well the clutching still worked with the added weight, on my Honda Pilot just adding 100 lbs is really noticeable.

I am trying to prepare for some dune and desert riding, anybody try taking a RZR up Choke Cherry hill or Sand Mountain?

Thanks again.

RANGERDALEXP · 2009-10-10 16:55:52

The answer to question 1 would depend on the kit that is set up for a certain altitude but yes the kit will normally raise the engagement or so called stall speed. The kit From EPI dose give you two springs springs and one will not raise the rpm but the other will by around 300 RPM. Dale will custom all kits that he makes as long as you tell him that you would not like to raise the stall speed.

The answer to question 2 is that the the stock set up is a compromise for all altitudes and riding conditions and a good kit will be tuned to what you ride and altitude and load factors.

The answer to question 3 would be that there is more force placed to the belt so it will not slip in the sheaves and smoke the belt. This alone made a huge difference on mine when under heavy load conditions.

The answer to question 4 would be that you will normally run at a lower RPM with the kit because of less belt slippage. If you do dune riding a kit really is needed because of the added drag on the tires from the sand and climbing the dunes. 250 lbs is not much on these clutches but at 250 lbs and in the sand the belt will start to heat up and you will start to smell that rubber smell under heavy load when you claw up the dune hills. On trail riding the up and down shifting will be improved and you down hill braking will be greatly improved.

Dale at Dirty Dawg will ask you your riding style and any modifications to the engine along with tire size and altitude. At this time you can talk to him about any concerns you may have.

#16 2009-10-05 15:21:41

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#17 2009-10-10 06:16:30

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#18 2009-10-10 06:18:38

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#19 2009-10-10 06:19:40

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#20 2009-10-10 06:23:03

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#21 2009-10-10 11:47:14

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#22 2009-10-10 12:38:41

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#23 2009-10-10 13:05:08

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#24 2009-10-10 15:16:53

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#25 2009-10-10 15:54:40

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

#26 2009-10-10 16:55:52

Re: NE one snap a belt yet?

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